Ferenc Kočiš

- "Just to say, among everything else, my brother has escaped by boat as he has heard that some other pupils from the school were saying that we took a boat and we haveto a plan to cross over to Italy. - How did they knew? - Who knows, we were children and children talk in school. Probably someone said that we will… escape, and when we were not there, because parents came to school to ask, the other children said that we took a boat. - My, now passed away, brother went with this patrol boat out to the open sea, all night looking for some proof of a boat or to find it somewhere. - He went with the army? - No, no, with the police.(Milicija - Yugoslavian term for police) - With the police. - With police patrole he went. - They took you here in prisonin, so what happened then? - Nothing. Then, in the evening they let me here to wait, then they call our parents. My mother came to pick me up and took me home. And that was it. No beating or anything as even for her all this was a huge shock. - But if this policeman, did not caught you, you would escape. - Maybe we would arrive to Kozina, maybe passed acros. - So, you came back to school. Did you had any punishment? - Yes, that school year I repeat, yes. That was it. Not just me, but all other three colleagues. All three. But they were a year older than me, so they were more behind me. -That was accidentally or intentionally? - Don´t know was it accidentally or intentionally, but it was a result for our esape or result of our behaviour before, like knowledge or something else. - How many inadequate grades you had when fell the class? - How many inadequate grades you had when fell the class? - I don´t know but there were a few. Not a lot, no. -Enough? - Two enough. - What was the time of the year when escape? - A fall I think. Fall or spring time, I can´t remember but think it was a fall. It was cold, foggy, rainy so I thinking it was a fall. Do not know really. - Would you now do it the same? - Ok, today no, but if I was younger maybe. - No, no, no, to rephrase the question. Today, these days are different. But today when thinking about it would you? - Today, let say when I see the whole situation, what this young people should expect in this country and so on I belive, if I was younger for some twenty years I would go away. Honestly, would go somewhere. Even to Papuu New Guinea, but somewhere would go as here there is nothing, I don´t se.. - Perspetive? - Unfortunately no, for my child who is 11, do not see any perspective."

- If this was an information circulating through city among people, it means police knew about it? - "Probably yes, that this is…(??), but probably they knew also, on the other hand.. they could not close the whole border, wright. That is it. You could alwas find some passage, a whole, something, wright. - Let´s go back to this motives. What was your motives? There were four of you. Can you tell us who were those people who escape with you? - Their names were Drago Draguzet… then.. just a minute to remember.. Kuftić, but don´t know the name… and Zonta Zlatko supposed to come with us, he stayed home as his father tied him there… tied.. so he said that father tied him with handcuffs to a locker, not be able to go… with us. Yes. - How much time did you plan your escape? - Quite a long time, but it was more making decision shell we go or not… like children, what we knew, we had …15..14 years, 7th grade in elementary school…like we will go there, to have a better life, everyone talk about it, America… watching movies… and so, saying(you think to find better??).. think, better.. to the west, wright. - Was it so bad here? - Not …so bad; to us children, but… we see it was not it, the life here is not like a life you could live abroad. And we were here.. like.. let´s go. That was more adventure than escape, but ok. - You were determined to leave…? - Decide to go to the west looking for a better life. -Then, was it a pure propaganda… as you say you didn´t missed anything, that was propaganda…or adventure, or even all together, or it was so bad here? - It was not so bad here. As parents work… like, my brother work, as he was 10 years older, so thinking I didn´t miss money, but just…a little bit of propaganda, these movies.. on tele… not on television but in the movies, because television were very little present. What you saw, thinking ”why would I stay here when I can leae?”. And then, when heard stories from other, about people who have left to Canada, America, Australia so.. with other things…. - Good, mainly this urban tissue of Pula was very… very…talking a lot about it. - Yes a lot of talking, yes… - This themes were inevitable, concerning escape and …. - In this days yes. Quite a lot. - Talking about period from beginning of 60ties till…. - Maybe even before, but… ok, since I remember, know people talk about it. This 60-ties, yes.. going away, mass of people, like from our street, from there a lot of them left… where I lived in Rakovčeva street…I know two..three who left. Do not know their names anymore, but those were people a generation of my brother, 10 years older than me, so they went to Canada, America, in… left everything here, parents and…mostly leaving there family here. Those who left..allegedly have succeeded."