Zdravko Macura

"A: we were surrounded by barbed wire. There was no way we could pass, there was not one, but three rows with ? Q: were there outposts? A: no, I didn’t see that, I don’t remember that, but there were guards, one time my aunt got up and walked a few steps and he hit her with a gun but I didn’t see many uniforms…no guards in uniform patrolling. Q: so the entire time, those three months in Jasenovac… A:Yes. Q: you were on the bare ground? A:Yes, there was a cover and there wasn’t room. But they were in a hurry to get things in order. Later I found out, after I visited Jasenovac a few times, heard things, researched, not just from my mother and cousins…it was lucky that at that time the commission came or…the Red Cross… Q: Red Cross. A: And then they made look like it was a work camp for refugees and some such, but in truth we were just meat. Q: and tell me, what about food, after the Red Cross came you got food. A: yes. Q: do you remember if they even gave you food, if they did how much? A:I know my mother used to bring in that…what do you call it? That military, what do you call it? Q:servings. A: Military servings. It has a name, when we were in the army we know…she used to go and get us warm soup or something cooked, stew or something…they didn’t starve us, they would give us something because we would die, and half the people already died of exhaustion because they couldn’t eat and for other reasons. And the trip to Jasenovac took its toll and they kept us on the verge of life. Q: on the verge of life. A: Yes Q: do you remember while you walked, those who were tired, what did they do to them? A: we would move on, they were left behind, abandoned, let’s move on. People older than me who saw everything know but all I know is what my mother gave me, I am proud my mother lived and saved us. She is a legend for me because she is a testament of human ego growing into a sacrifice for others, no, she lived…"

"Q: And tell me, the sanitary condition, what were they like? A: Oh, that’s another story. Q: Could you tell us if you remember? A: it was, look, next to you, they urinate, doing their business, there is no way to…we have already started to walk on Q: Feces. A: yes, like you had to find a corner to hide, take care of yourself. I remember I had a problem, I had a diarrhea the whole time. It was terrible. You have no place to wash yourself or wipe yourself. Q: there was nothing? A: nothing, nothing. Q: you didn’t wash yourself all that time? A: no, no, no. no, no. I only know that a few times, that wound I had, mother ripped her last skirt to hold it together so it wouldn’t Q: become infected A: infected or to stop it from bleeding again. Q: You very lucky, you were lucky your wound didn’t get infected, if it did… A: I don’t know. Q: so no sanitary conditions? A: no, I remember as a child I would walk all over, I couldn’t tell you exactly but I walked all over my own feces and everybody else’s. Q: yours and everybody elses A: It ran down my leg, I had diarrhea. Q: what were the nights like? A: Cold. Q: Cold. A: Terrible. Q: Could you sleep? A: you get tired, and you pray to god you fall sleep so you don’t have to feel everything you see. But my mother’s dress and apron she carried around with her was everything we had so the four of us would used that to cover ourselves up. Q:you never saw a doctor? A: no, men came in those white, what do you call it, overalls. Q: when you entered the camp did you get number or something like that? A: no, I didn’t, my mother had to say her name and then “I have three children”.